Yeah there are a lot of holes in the Volturi timeline. Carlisle was with them from 1700-1720. Jane and Alec joined around 800. Why did they not meet? And it doesn’t seem like they did—Jane says at the end of Eclipse something to the effect of “it’s nice to meet you Carlisle, I thought Aro was exaggerating.” Which means she hadn’t met him but had heard about him from Aro.
Now add to this that Eleazar served with the Volturi. He was born in the 1700s sometime…but he apparently had no idea that the vegetarian way of life was possible until he met the Denali sisters later after leaving the Volturi to be with Carmen. How does that work?! How did Eleazar not hear about it from Aro (who apparently talks about Carlisle enough that Jane thought he was exaggerating)? He must have served after Carlisle had already been there if he was born in the 1700s and Carlisle was gone by 1720.
It really doesn’t add up—the only way it works is if Aro was deliberately manipulating the whole thing, like keeping Jane and Alec away from Carlisle (for 20 years?!?!) so that he wouldn’t realize how evil the whole Volturi thing was, and then Aro prohibited anyone from mentioning Carlisle or his diet to the “gentle, compassionate” Eleazar because it might give him ~ideas. That just seems farfetched to me. More likely SM just didn’t really think the Volterra side of things through too much. This was Bella and Edward’s story in the end, the Volturi and various backstory was never her focus (sadly!).
Some random shots from the Making Of features I took while making screencaps for Keeping Up With The Cullens.
How do you see the structure of the Denali “family?” Do you see Carmen and Eleazar as parental figures, or as brother/sister to Tanya, Kate and Irina?
Who do you consider the leader? The books say Tanya, but some of the promotion materials from the movie implied Eleazar was.
I just feel like that’s awfully…convenient? He killed his own sister to keep Marcus, and Marcus’ talent isn’t even as useful to him as Eleazar’s is. Aro could touch someone and read their thoughts and know all their relationships and loyalties. But he doesn’t have a psychic means of identifying latent powers in humans (or being able to see powers without touching a vampire—and it would be dangerous to approach them without knowing!). You’d think keeping Eleazar would be more important than keeping Marcus, and it’s not like Aro gave a crap about Carmen. He killed his own sister, but wouldn’t hurt Carmen?
I think SM probably made up Eleazar—a gentle vampire who left the Volturi and had a gift for talent identification—and then she was like “oh, wait. Why would Aro let him leave?” and then just went “um Aro hoped he be back someday? That sounds good” and left it at that.
There’s so much about the Volturi and their timeline that just doesn’t add up. Eleazar and Carmen didn’t know about vegetarianism until they met the Denali… but both Carlisle and Eleazar have lived with the Volturi. And Aro clearly talks about his ‘dear friend’ Carlisle all the time (“It’s nice to meet you Carlisle, I’d thought Aro was exaggerating”), so even if they weren’t there at the same time, how did Eleazar NOT hear about it??
I think, again, SM’s focus was always on E/B/Jaocb/Renesmee and so a lot of this other stuff sort of got left behind and she tried to justify it later in the Guide.
While I think Eleazar and Carmen are basically just the Spanish Esme and Carlisle, I don’t think they fulfill the roles of Carlisle and Esme within the Denali coven. Tanya is the leader, not Eleazar. She’s sort of the ‘Edward’ to Sasha’s ‘Carlisle,’ IMO. She was Sasha’s first and stepped up as leader when Sasha was killed. I sort of see Eleazar and Carmen as more of the Alice and Jasper, that is an ‘unrelated’ pair that joined an already established unit with a single creator. Tanya, Kate, and Irina were all Sasha’s creations, just as Edward, Esme, Rosalie and Emmett are Carlisle’s. Eleazar has a lot of experience—and so does Jasper—but neither usurped the place of the leader. Likewise both Tanya and Carlisle are the oldest of their respective groups, and I think the eldest vampire tends to be the leader unless there are extenuating circumstances (such as particular gifts—like Aro—being involved).
I tend to think Sasha was more of an Esme than a Carlisle. I’ve spoken about this before, but I see Esme as the much more traditionally parental of the two. Esme is the den mother, Carlisle is the mentor. I think Sasha was more Mom than mentor; she wanted a family, children (like Esme) rather than companions (Carlisle), and that’s what led her to create Vasilii.
If the Cullens lost Carlisle and Esme, I think Edward would fancy himself the Man of the House, but I don’t know that Jasper would be willing to follow someone who was so much younger than him (both in vampire terms and human terms). Jasper has enough experience to know a good leader when he sees one, and Edward is too hot-headed, frozen as he is at seventeen, and has not seen much of the vampire world. I don’t think Rosalie would like following Edward, either. Carlisle and Esme are the calm center of a rather opinionated and stubborn group of people—I don’t know that they could maintain a sense of unity and cohension without at least one of them, tbh.
Ps (read my other post), what I mean that I find it interesting is ONLY how Eleazar see’s Carlisle.. lol. - Btw, I apologize from my bad english.. I’m from Sweden.
First of all, thanks! I’m glad you enjoy it!
I don’t think I’ve read it, but I might have heard of it—is that a slash one? With an OC? I’m not really into OCs (I want to read about the characters from the book, basically, not new ones), so it’s probably not my thing. While I didn’t actually care about Carlisle/Esme as a couple when I read the book(s), I’m kind of invested in them now. lol. It might be because they are so damn cute in the movies, but it’s partly because I know Esme’s backstory now and I think it’s rather sweet he was sort of her fantasy unattainable guy and then she ended up landing him anyway. lol.
The only male I could possibly ‘ship’ Carlisle with is Aro, but I think that would be one sided (Aro loves him and Carlisle’s just like… no, you’re a sociopath). XD
And now that I have the second half of your comment (lol) maybe I will have to check out the fic just to see how Eleazar sees him. That could be interesting. I’ve always thought Eleazar and Carlisle were two very similar characters. Almost too similar, maybe.